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Derby DQ?
May 7, 2019 18:28:23 GMT -5
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Post by unusualpete on May 7, 2019 18:28:23 GMT -5
100% w elk. Saez should get days. It's that kind of Bush league crap that paralyzed Rene Douglas.
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Post by bobtailnag on May 7, 2019 22:42:12 GMT -5
^5 Pete
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Derby DQ?
May 8, 2019 9:42:59 GMT -5
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Post by The Call on May 8, 2019 9:42:59 GMT -5
Quick question from a newbie? Do stewards have any other options in setting result order? Seems odd Country gets the win when it was the other 1 or 2 that were impeded?
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5wide
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Post by 5wide on May 8, 2019 12:48:56 GMT -5
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tex
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Derby DQ?
May 8, 2019 13:51:35 GMT -5
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Post by tex on May 8, 2019 13:51:35 GMT -5
Dez caught the ball
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Post by elkurzhal on May 8, 2019 13:53:48 GMT -5
Saints, "Pass interference!"
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Post by elkurzhal on May 9, 2019 14:26:55 GMT -5
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Post by damascus on May 10, 2019 20:35:28 GMT -5
So simple question did the stewards watch this latest video? If not why not? Shouldn't they have all possible video evidence available to them?
This video demonstrates that WoW tried to push his way out away from the rail into the horses next to him which put them in a very bad position to either back out of there or to try to keep their position which is not good on a fast track but even worse on a sloppy track. Then Country House pens them in from the outside and appears from other video angles to actually move toward the rail bumping Bodeexpress. That is why consideration should have been given to DQ'ing Country House not rewarding him simply because it was the quickest and easiest thing for the stewards to do.
I think the three stewards started to panic because of all the time they were taking. They will have to if/when this ends up in Court testify to what their discussions consisted of (which by the way should have as a matter of smart practice been recorded) and it will be fascinating to see just what their train of thought/logic consisted of. Also and i have yet to see anyone mention this, what qualifications did these three people have to be decision makers in connection with not just this race but what qualified them to be stewards at all? Where they political appointees? Where they long time racing industry people, former jockeys? Former Trainers? One would imagine that they should have been one or both before being placed in a position to interpret the "Rule(s)" let alone on this the biggest stage there is.
Disturbing that they were not subject to some simple questions, that they did not have to allow the impacted owners access to the video that these three people apparently made this multi million dollar decision upon. the problem is that this is not just a simple everyday race but there is dare is speculate literally a hundred million dollars or more potentially at stake in light of breeding rights, fame, etc deriving from winning the Derby.
So it seems like this is a monumental race, monumental decision and perhaps it was handled in a podunk, half assed manner.
Like any other interpretation of the law in the real world, if there is a manner, custom and practice and way in which a law has been consistently interpreted and enforced that will serve as very compelling authority for how that rule should be enforeced today. Thus when i hear experts such as Baffert, Jerry Bailey etc saying the result should stand, that the incident did not change the result, did not cause a horse to lose a placing etc then i give their opinion much more credence then i do someone who might just be a political appointee. Just saying, that should be considered in the big picture. This video just underscores it for me.
damascus
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1hooper
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Post by 1hooper on May 10, 2019 21:37:41 GMT -5
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Post by damascus on May 11, 2019 13:50:39 GMT -5
Thanks Hoop.
So in looking at ms. Borden's background she attended the race official accreditation program a 60 hour course (including a 2 day field trip to observe live racing) course is described here
then she has taken continuing education classes consisting of teh equivalent of 6 days over 4 years. Curiously and conspicuously absent is any mention of prior riding, training, ownership experience in horse racing. With her accredidation she has been a horse identifier and steward at various locations. The other gentleman who disclosed his experience is somewhat similar.
This leaves me less than confident in the qualifications and ability of these people to be the ones judging the disqualification of Max Security. These may be brilliant people doing their best but would you expect that your super bowl would be refereed by people who merely attended classes but never actually played the game.
Are average people qualified to judge a boxing championship match just because they went to some classes and watched live boxing for 2 days? What other sport puts its championship in the hands or people with apparently little to no actual experience in the sport?
It seems to me that only someone who has actually been a jockey in competitive racing would really be qualified as they have the hands on experience and know precisely what goes on while sailing along at 30+ mph in a competitive group dealing with unexpected events while controlling a 1/2 ton animal.
I apologize if i sound bitter at times but like i suspect most of you i had spent a great deal of time handicapping, analyzing and putting hard earned cash on the barrel only to see what i still think is an injustice on many different levels so again i apologize to any i offend but i think it is a discussion worth having.
regards,
Dam
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Post by bobtailnag on May 11, 2019 16:47:55 GMT -5
Why do some people think that taking 22 minutes, trying to ensure the call will be correct, means something is suspect? The stewards responsibility is to get the judgment right, not to get it as quickly as possible. They're like jurors and need take as long as necessary to conclude an agreed upon decision. If there is not a unanimous verdict, then I assume they go with the majority opinion.
Lets also consider that those stewards have varying levels of experience exactly in this kind of situation and that's just what you want - unlike a murder trial where the jurors have little or no experience in law yet are trusted with making the decision when a persons life or death is at stake - not just some amount of money.
Just as in most legal cases, the person on death row has the same opportunity that the Max's owner has - he can appeal - and apparently he did. I have no dog in this race and how it all ends I hope it's the correct result.
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Post by hezethebest on May 12, 2019 9:13:46 GMT -5
You make a good point about the time issue bobtail, and while I for one thought 22 minutes was a long time it is paramount to get it right vs make a hasty call. Regarding the stewards, I mentioned in my Derby write-up how I spent an afternoon at Gulfstream Park with Hall of Fame jockey Walter Blum while in Fort Lauderdale in the days leading up to the Derby. While he retired from riding in 1974, he didn't retire from racing then. He was a State employed steward in Florida for 25+ years and he told me that there are generally 2 stewards employed by the track who would weigh in 1st on inquiry situations and the State steward would only get involved as a tiebreaker in the event the 2 track employed stewards disagreed. Unlike some jury scenarios where you need a unanimous vote, the majority would rule on the racetrack. In taking 22 minutes I would suspect this was likely a split decision by the 3 stewards but I don't know that for sure. If so, certainly the one holding the tiebreaker vote had some added pressure.
LL
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gam
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Post by gam on May 12, 2019 11:07:57 GMT -5
I read that and it seems Casse had decided to take the "High Road" until some comments were made. Now having said what he said, does this mean that Casse won't ever employ Saez on one of his horses? Curious how these things impact future relationships in the industry. Also curious what others here think: did Saez deliberately seek to "block" a rival or two? Or did his horse simply spook, as he claimed?
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Post by bobtailnag on May 12, 2019 12:04:33 GMT -5
Interesting question Gam. "Blocking" is part and parcel in auto racing and I thought it wasn't illegal in horse racing. Is it? We've all seen it happen for years even to the point there trainers have employed a second runner to keep a competitor bottled up on the rail or behind slower runners. I think that's just race riding. Has anyone out there ever recall Saez pulling that trick before? I think he just lost control of the horse. I guess it is possible he lost control of his own emotions thinking he was about to win The Kentucky Derby.
I was quite aware of the very different looks and actions of the two principal riders while waiting for the stewards to make the call. Prat was grinning like a Cheshire cat and looked as if he had already been told he won; while Seaz looked scared to death like he was just found guilty to a capital felony. My thoughts at that moment was he knew he was cooked.
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Derby DQ?
May 12, 2019 12:14:02 GMT -5
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Post by Damascusxx on May 12, 2019 12:14:02 GMT -5
The lengthy delay made it seem more like the stewards couldn't decide and maybe we're starting to consider non race video factors like the trainers, jocks involved.......I have no proof of that just saying that's what it felt like.
As to Casse, I think he defamed Saez with no reason whatsoever to do so. The horse veered out but remember it was while they were running the turn so it was bound to be enough exaggerated veering out. Saez corrected as quickly as possible. So Casse's comments were highly innappropriate.
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gam
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Post by gam on May 12, 2019 17:32:28 GMT -5
On the blocking issue, I think it's all in the timing. If War Of Will wasn't making his move, he'd been alright. Also, I still think that had WOW gotten part way up to him he probably wouldn't have been DQed, either. They'd probably have bumped a bit but unless WOW had been knocked clear off stride, they'd left it alone.
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turbine
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Post by turbine on May 13, 2019 17:20:12 GMT -5
I totally agree with GAM. Unfortunately it was put a sour taste on the Triple Crown this year!
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Post by cherokeescot on May 13, 2019 18:13:25 GMT -5
A taste that can only be cured by a shot of Bourbon đ
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Post by frangooch on May 13, 2019 18:34:02 GMT -5
Straight, no chaser;-)
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Post by Hooper on May 13, 2019 18:59:56 GMT -5
Black-Eyed Susan recipe
- 1 1/2 ounce of vodka
- 1 ounce of bourbon
- 2 ounces of orange juice
- 2 ounces of sour mix
- Place an orange and cherry on top for garnish
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Post by tims70ar on May 13, 2019 22:26:16 GMT -5
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Post by PonyGirlJCM on May 14, 2019 2:19:03 GMT -5
Totally amusing....for all we know true.....
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Post by spiderjohn on May 14, 2019 8:25:49 GMT -5
Little mention so far is how this dq has de-emphasized both the Preakness and the Belmont.... LIRR pony express won't be as crowded this year... A healthy Derby winner passing this Saturday? Because Mott is the trainer, this is more acceptable? As is MS owners' bitterness? Saez can't ride? Or will he miss the Belmont?
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Post by frangooch on May 14, 2019 12:15:00 GMT -5
Mott says he ainât healthy. Skipping Belmont also.
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Derby DQ?
May 14, 2019 12:25:04 GMT -5
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Post by cherokeescot on May 14, 2019 12:25:04 GMT -5
Saez will be riding at Pimlico but doesnât have a mount in the Preakness. His suspension doesnât start until May 23 and would carry through past the Belmont unless he is successful with his appeal.
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Post by PonyGirlJCM on May 19, 2019 12:22:24 GMT -5
Totally amusing....for all we know true..... I wonder if Bodeexpress remembered all the Kentucky Derby nonsense and decided that he could do better on his own.... â Who needs the weight and that guy hitting in me in the ass...I know what I need to do...I got this....â
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