spanky
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Post by spanky on Jan 26, 2021 19:08:48 GMT -5
The vote was today and nobody was inducted. Again. Curt Schilling was close at 61% but didn't get in. He has come close many times and has requested his name be removed for future consideration. Barry Bonds, nope...anyone think Bonds or even Pete Rose belong? Mark McGuire?
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Jan 26, 2021 20:51:26 GMT -5
Schilling actually got 71 percent (75 percent is required for induction). I think Bonds and Clemens may eventually get in, if not with the writers, then from the veterans committee. I am ambivalent about any of the steroid group Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Manny Ramirez etc ever getting in. If they do I won't lose sleep, if they don't that's OK with me too.
I do resent the whole steroid (and HGH in the case of Bonds) era a bit because it so distorted baseball statistics, which have always been more important to fans than stats in other sports. 500 homers used to be a huge accomplishment, even 400 was pretty special. Mays, Aaron, and Mantle would have hit hundreds more I believe if similarly aided. I guess they didn't have to face pitchers using them (Clemens)but my sense is that far fewer pitchers used them.
I also know the argument that earlier eras used greenies (amphetamines) but that is qualitatively different. They might help alertness in the second game of a doubleheader(back when teams actually played doubleheaders), or in a day game after night game, but they didn't make you 25 percent stronger and dramatically increase bat speed (or in the case of Bonds increase his hat size by 3). I also know the argument that Bonds had a hall of fame career before he started using, but the point is he did start and had his best years even as he was getting older.
Rose is a different case. He committed baseball's cardinal sin by betting on games repeatedly over a long time and lying about it for a much longer time. And for those who say he never bet on his team to lose, I think that is probably true, but in a sense when he didn't bet for the Reds, he was betting against them. As manager for instance he could choose when to bring in a top reliever (in a game he had bet on) or when to give him a rest (perhaps in a game he had not bet on). He is already in the Hall, in the sense that many of his accomplishments are.
Bottom line I guess I'm Ok if the above all get in and the plaques note their "issues." Interested in hearing other's views.
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spanky
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Post by spanky on Jan 27, 2021 13:00:12 GMT -5
I stand corrected on the Schilling % shoes. I also appreciate your thoughts above. I think that somehow there has to be a way to specify who did or did not get into the HOF with or without drugs. I have mentioned before that Curt Flood changed baseball as much as any of the players we are discussing. I have a question (or maybe just something to ponder). How much $ would a player like Micky Mandle be paid if he played in the current time of MLB?
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1hooper
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Post by 1hooper on Jan 27, 2021 13:18:17 GMT -5
5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
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1hooper
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Post by 1hooper on Jan 27, 2021 15:35:50 GMT -5
I'm a no on Schilling but my brother is a yes. We went back and forth on the phone last night. I can't get past rule 5 and his rambling private/public letter to the Hall yesterday won't help.
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spanky
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Post by spanky on Jan 27, 2021 19:33:51 GMT -5
How would you define or judge "Character"?
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Jan 27, 2021 22:43:36 GMT -5
I think Schilling is right on the borderline.
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