belmont conspiracy

[damascus]

Is it just me or did it feel like Baffert's other belmont runner deliberately ran interference to pick off the other speed in case it was going to come from the outside.   Looked like Geroux deliberately used his horse out of the gate to get positioin to prevent outside speed from getting over, actually riding out into that first turn then coming back in on bravazo to prevent any other horse from getting on justify.

I was very surprised to see this as Restroring hopes slim chances were thrown away and he faded to what looked like last.

Just very disappointing to see this first they pull Audible rather than have him go head to head with Justify then this?

[frangooch]

Dam, I was disappointed in Audible not running, and posted to that effect. However, RH "running interference" strikes me as no more objectionable than Pletcher running a rabbit. As long as there is no fouling, anyway.

[damascus]

That rabbit was my key!  lol.  I believe Justify wins the race no matter what but on this the biggest stage, that sort of screwing around is embarrassing and weak.  If there is going to be a triple crown winner let him earn it.  I still hurt for SMarty Jones who i think is probably the best horse who deserved to but didnt win the triple crown.....

[frangooch]

Just watched the race again. I think there was plenty of room between Justify and RH if Noble Indy wanted to get through or was horse enough to do so. He couldn’t, and finished a well deserved last. Much ado about nothing, imo, though I wish he would have interfered with Gronkowski !

[1hooper]

NY State Gaming rules.

§ 4035.4. Instructions to jockeys.

All horses are expected to give their best efforts in races in which they run, and any instructions or advice to jockeys to ride or handle their mounts otherwise than for the purpose of winning are forbidden and will subject all persons giving or following such instructions or advice to disciplinary action by the stewards and the commission.

[cherokeescot]

Repole saying that Noble Indy was going to press Justify from the get go was just a smokescreen . Noble Indy is part owned by Winstar. There was a $25 million bonus in selling the breeding rights if Justify won the Triple Crown. No way were Winstar letting one of their own horses put that sort of money in Jeopardy.

[shoes]

I was struck watching it live with how Restoring Hope broke so sharply and then made no effort initially to get over until Justify motored up into first and then did move in and sit off of him looking like his wing man. The explanation I've heard -that he was rank early and then the jockey trying to wrestle him back to not burn out early is somewhat plausible but it was curious especially in view of the fact that I could not figure out for the life of me why Baffert entered him in the first place. I think the most logical explanation is that it was purposeful.

However in a 10 horse field at on the spacious Belmont track, I don't think it is much of an excuse for any of the other competitors. I guess I would be upset if I bet Restoring Hope to win, place or show, which I did not.

[gallantbob]

Spoke to an owner just before the race and he said Repole offered him 300k for one of his horses for the expressed purpose of running him as a rabbit yesterday. He wasn’t comfortable seeing a horse burned up and turned him down. (Ran second in a PennNat stake last week).

Guy has his horses with John Servis who’s close to Baffert. Baffert supposedly told Servis no way the horse loses. Good to know as I was getting my head handed to me and decided to pretty fold my tent instead of chasing. Small profit from the first two legs gone plus a little more. Second year in a row the Manhattan proved costly.

[frangooch]

'shoes nailed it. Manageable field in a mile and a half race. Anyone could have pressed Justify. They either didn't want to, or they could not keep up.

[hezethebest]

Jun 10, 2018 12:18:52 GMT -5 gallantbob said:

Spoke to an owner just before the race and he said Repole offered him 300k for one of his horses for the expressed purpose of running him as a rabbit yesterday. He wasn’t comfortable seeing a horse burned up and turned him down. (Ran second in a PennNat stake last week).

Guy has his horses with John Servis who’s close to Baffert. Baffert supposedly told Servis no way the horse loses. Good to know as I was getting my head handed to me and decided to pretty fold my tent instead of chasing. Small profit from the first two legs gone plus a little more. Second year in a row the Manhattan proved costly.

"Second year in a row the Manhattan proved costly".

I'm with you on the Manhattan, g'bob! I am heavily invested in my top pick, Manitoulin and get the sense I caught Smitty "looking ahead" as it were. If he can manage to save just a little ground at some point he is right there at 30-1.

LL

[gam]

Watching live, I had the same thought, running interference. However, if it's deemed acceptable to enter a rabbit, why is what Baffert did (assuming it was his mission) objectionable? And why is anyone thinking Justify needs the lead?

I gave Manitoulin a shot but discounted it due to the likelihood of a wide trip. I had similar concerns with Spring Quality yet found myself alive to the 2, 4, 6 & 8 in the DD (no 6 for me Hoop). Hoped Prado would drop back and he did.

Meant to say alive to 2, 4, 8 & 10.

[1hooper]

From David Grening,DRF,free article on the home page. Just posted. www.drf.com/news/horsemen-question-gerouxs-ride-restoring-hope
The highlights from my perspective.
Hooper

John Velazquez, the rider of Vino Rosso, said he felt Geroux rode Restoring Hope in a manner to protect Justify.

“Why would you send a horse that breaks bad and take everybody out, then come back in?” Velazquez, a Hall of Fame rider, said. “That’s his job, to protect the other horse and it worked for them. You have to give it to them.”

Geroux, back in Kentucky on Sunday morning, said that he wanted his horse to be forwardly placed and in the clear but that the horse got rank with him entering the first turn.

“When he broke a step slow - he’s kind of an aggressive horse to ride, he pulls very hard - I wanted to make sure I put him in the clear,” Geroux said. “I didn’t want to break, get the horse covered up and then the horse starts getting aggressive behind horses. It would have been even worse if he was behind horses.”

Geroux said if Restoring Hope had broken better, he might have been ahead of Justify entering the first turn.

“Bob just wanted me to get good position, he wanted the horse to be forwardly placed, second or third, you don’t see too many closers from Baffert,” he said. “If my horse would have broke on top, I would have been on the lead and Justify laying second. My horse broke a step slow and Justify was already in front of me.”

Repole said he hopes the New York stewards talk to Geroux about his ride. Steve Lewandowski, the New York Gaming Commission steward, said Sunday that there is no plan to talk to Geroux.

“Nothing was brought to our attention,” Lewandowski said.

Repole was also frustrated with jockey Javier Castellano, who rode Noble Indy for him and WinStar Farm; the latter also co-owns Justify. Repole said he and Todd Pletcher, the trainer of Noble Indy and Vino Rosso, instructed Castellano to make the lead.

Castellano said his horse broke slowly and hit the side of the gate. He said he tried to get the horse forwardly placed, but soon realized he wasn't going to be able to get ahead of Justify.

“He wanted me to be on the lead, but I didn’t have enough speed to get to the lead,” Castellano said. “I made an effort, but I got to the point where I had to give up. How far can I go - 10 wide - and try to go to the lead? I can’t.”

Pletcher, the trainer of Noble Indy, confirmed that the plan was to have that horse in a forward position early.

“Javier opted to go to his plan B,” Pletcher said. “Mike and I didn’t discuss a plan B.”

Repole said Castellano will likely not ride for him for the near future.

“You get to run in this race one time in your life, you would expect to follow directions,” Repole said. “He chose an audible, that doesn’t sit well with me. It’ll be awhile before you see Javier in the blue and orange silks.”

[cherokeescot]

This is turning out to be more interesting than the actual race. Apparently there is a story about Mike Smith shouting “You’re the man” to Florent Geroux after the race but I’m still waiting to see the video evidence from the grassy knoll.

[frangooch]

This just in: Restoring Hope did not "take everybody out". For that matter, he did not take anybody out. Watching the replay again, he did look rank going into the first turn, but he was faster to the lead than any of those whining. The all had a chance to go, but didn't, or couldn't. Gee, I feel real sorry for Repole...........

[DoctorDisaster]

Thanks Gooch I was ready to go on a rant.
I know this guy.I know him through mutual friends other than his interest in horse racing.I would bump into him at OTB or the track every so often.One day at the track we are BSn and he asks me if I think horse racing is "fixed".So I go into my spiel.Then he tells me I think it's all fixed.I then ask WTF are you doing here.You can go across the street to the Racino and feed the slots.Opps wait that's fixed too.

[gam]

Restoring Hope may not have "taken out" any horses but he essentially rushed up to occupy the 3w path and since Bravazo was content to sit back. anyone wanting to get up and pressure Justify was going to have to circle around. He also pushed Noble Indy out a bit early. However, nothing illegal about blocking other horses, happens frequently enough.

[DoctorDisaster]

IT"S A  F*&^ING HORSE RACE.ANYTHING GOES WITH THOSE NUTS.The riders too.

[cherokeescot]

With the era of the super trainer having more than one horse in the big races this practice is being more and more common

blog.horsetourneys.com/2016/08/29/when-trainers-have-multiple-speed-horses-in-the-same-two-turn-stakes-race/

[damascus]

It appears as if this is getting more serious as the days go by. Gary West the owner of Restoring Hope is pissed and clearly feels like he and his horse were used. Does not reflect well on Bob Baffert who i have otherwise the utmost respect for. IT absolutely looks really bad for florent geroux as he clearly (to my jaded view) deliberately spent his horse gunning to outrun Noble Indy who would have been expected to go by on his right and swing over to put pressure on Justify. While there is obviously race riding, that was BS. Geroux screwed the Wests and i would be shocked if he ever rode one of their horses again.

Aside from the bad taste that this gamesmanship left in my mouth on this the most important race of the 3 year old season this leaves a major stain on horse racing and there will always be an asterisk with this triple crown. It raises the conflict of interest issue when there is common ownership of multiple horses. I am sure the rules are pretty black and white in terms of having coupled entries but i like the old days when there are many distinct owners and there is true competition.

But perhaps the biggest joke is this nincompoop from the stewards at NYRA pretending like nothing happenned and there is nothing to see here. Frankly stewards have done little to impress me (or to help my wagers over the years) so i am pretty biased against them to begin with but dont sound like an azz when you are asked a pretty good question Mr. Steward from Belmont. I was very surprised they did not even have an inquiry after the race to at least get florent geroux on record before everyone fled the track. it is the appearance of impropriety that racing has to guard against. jmho

[quickcall]

Someone here commented that Pletcher might use Noble Indy to soften Justify for Vino. I read it after I bet on Noble Indy. And sure enough, based on what I have read, Noble Indy had no chance of being in the money.

That’s awesome to know as a betting race fan.

This isn’t fun anymore. I’ve been losing interest the last few years.

Tired of seeing the big three having multiple horses in all of the big races and winning them all.

The consequence of money being involved.

It’s just no fun any longer. But they’re cutting their own throats.....

[eye123]

[frangooch]

Watched it again since eye posted it. RH bumps nobody, interferes with nobody.If Noble Indy wanted the lead, he would have/should have been going faster. At that, he had the entire backstretch to press Justify, and didn't. Much ado...shut up, Repole.

I have never liked the idea of a rabbit, going back to Damascus/Dr. Fager (probably why OUR Damasacus thinks it's a good idea ! ;-) ). And when jockeys bottle up a heavy favorite by surrounding him and keeping him on the rail, isn't it called "race riding"? No big deal here.

I do think Audible should have run, and hate the fact that he didn't. (On the other hand, when he did race against Justify, he got spanked.) In this respect, I agree with the posts about racing partnerships, etc.

All of that said, give Justify his due. He is the greatest of his generation, having beaten all comers in what was a highly touted 3yo crop, without any foundation to speak of. Imagine what he would/will show with more bottom in him! At this point I would rate his 3yo campaign above Slew's, certainly. He may or may not be as fast as Pharoah, but he surely beat better horses. This is a great horse, period.

[tex]

Restoring Hope was not entered with the intent of trying to win and therefore should
Not have been a separate betting interest. He should have been coupled with Justify.
Baffert did a number on Shared Belief multiple times so This really is no surprise.
Trouble is with the way the game is going Now with ownership groups etc -
there will be a full field with two or three betting interest only
If they couple them accordingly. Uncoupling was meant to make the game better because
of short fields. Addressing one problem exposes another. There is always a problem with
horse racing - until there is no more racing.

[eye123]

Watching this race we see the flying half V....Justify on the lead(Baffert Winstar),Restoring Hope laying right off outside Justify (Baffert), and Noble Indy(Winstar) laying outside off Restoring Hope......the V basically keeping the rest of the field inside from the first quarter. Then slowing it down. 23 one quarter....48 one half...113 one three quarters and the mile in 138. What got me when watching this again, check the 2:30 mark on the tape. Both Restoring Hope and Noble Indy giving up the ghost so to speak....slowing down considerably......when Javier begins to "TALK" to Geroux. Can see why Gary West and Mike Repole might be upset.....but all said and done,think Justify was just to good for this group this tactic or not. To much to believe the placing at the quarter was incidental with this three being where they were.

[frangooch]

If there is a $75million deal on the table, I don't think whether the horses are coupled or not will make any difference in the race. Not that I have a better idea.....

What about a limit on number of entries per owner or trainer?

Let me say this again, however: "Shut up, Repole". Your horses were not very good.

[tc]

what does NO POLITICS think about this latest conspiracy?

[cherokeescot]

Repole doth protest too much

[propro]

I have no love for Repole either, but why shouldn't he be pissed? According to Mike and Todd Pletcher, Javier had one instruction. Make the lead. They're mad because he decided to audible with a plan B. Pletcher said there was no plan B. Javier wasn't riding for the lead out of the gate so his plan B was certainly made up before they broke. Geroux makes up a story about Restoring Hope being "rank" and that's why he pulled him out to the 7 path while the horse is probably wondering "why aren't we going inside since I'm ahead of Justify and can make the lead." Rank is different from being revved up since Geroux just rode him for a sixteenth. That "rank" animal had no problems making a hard left when he needed to. Watch the head on replay at Nyra.com. It's in HD and everything is crystal clear there, including the fact that Geroux and Castellano had quite a conversation from the 3/16ths to nearing the finish.

Justify was outstanding and ran like a champion on Saturday. I hope he returns to continue his good work.

[shoes]

propro- After watching the race about 10 times now, that's pretty much where I am at too. Justify was the best horse and was likely going to win no matter what, but it seems like Baffert wanted to take out a little extra insurance on what was already the likely outcome. It's too bad IMO but maybe in the long run it will be forgotten and whatever small taint there is to the win will be forgotten.

[gam]

What if TAP and Javvy were in on it, too? Tell Repole one thing all the while planning Plan B?