1hooper
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Post by 1hooper on Mar 14, 2019 17:16:55 GMT -5
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Post by PonyGirlJCM on Mar 14, 2019 17:43:54 GMT -5
Thsnk you for sharing this Hooper.... happy to read about the crop change....always felt a Horse is meant to run and a good jockey wouldn’t need to whip a horse to get it to do so....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 18:01:08 GMT -5
Excellent....I , too ,have always been against race day drugs usage...as they are a stimulant like steroids to various sports usage...the only item that should be kept is how often a jock might slap his mount with his crop to keep the horses attitude and aptitude etc on running...and how often a jock may slap the horse's various body as jocks mildly slap a horse on the neck area and rump...so within a reasonable amount of times according to the distance of a race...say a min & max ...then a jock / trainer / owner gets a reasonable fine...lol...it means that trainers then must ensure thier horses are in better shape to race...etc..,a good stand by Linda Stronach...and company...etc....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 18:04:07 GMT -5
....I wonder if the insurance rates are going up because of these occurrences for track and horse owners etc...there must be some such spin off surly...
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Post by frangooch on Mar 14, 2019 18:05:13 GMT -5
Well, I am glad to see them doing this, but after the filly's death today, it seems pretty clear that they don't really know what the problem is. It's a good thing to try this and try that--better than nothing, and some of the measures are obvious and long needed. However, knowing that they don't know, and given the rate of fatalities, would you run your horse there? What a thing....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 18:24:03 GMT -5
They have not stated how the horses are dying in general and would not an Doctor be called in to check the causes of death...for instance, the filly that recently broke both front legs must have had some reason for so doing...perhaps a lack of calcium etc in food stuffs.,.or did she fall via a stumble etc....folks at s a really are not clear as to the problem so where is the uttopsey etc...sad situation indeed...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 18:28:05 GMT -5
Thsnk you for sharing this Hooper.... happy to read about the crop change....always felt a Horse is meant to run and a good jockey wouldn’t need to whip a horse to get it to do so.... Lol...like children that need a slap to keep thier minds on subjects that they are to focus on a horse also because of aptititudes and attitudes etc needs a bit of attention via a slap to keep the attention spans working on the goals...lol..I rather wish a few jocks on whose horses I bet would get a slap to wake them while racing....lol... |
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Post by PonyGirlJCM on Mar 15, 2019 2:55:56 GMT -5
Hopefully they will figure it out soon....
They should be testing more than the track...water supply....feed....everything.....
Are there any similarities in what they eat....drink....medications....all aspects of the Horses.... same as if there was an epidemic in people....
Bpiets....I never had to beat my children...still maintain you shouldn’t have to beat a horse....an animal meant to run.....
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Post by spiderjohn on Mar 15, 2019 6:57:40 GMT -5
Amen William--I can think of more jocks deserving of the whip down the lane than tired horses...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 7:19:29 GMT -5
Hopefully they will figure it out soon.... They should be testing more than the track...water supply....feed....everything..... Are there any similarities in what they eat....drink....medications....all aspects of the Horses.... same as if there was an epidemic in people.... Bpiets....I never had to beat my children...still maintain you shouldn’t have to beat a horse....an animal meant to run..... Lol...beat or slap...? ...aaahhhh....the days of yor when Spurs were used on race horses and riding horses and crops were made of heavy leather as in whips with items that cut into flesh etc just like in many a movie etc ....big difference between the jock slapping a horse down the stretch to motivate into action with the whips they use these days ,that really does not hurt the horse ,and the word. ' beat ' as related to children....lol...it is the jock who is placing over emphasis on his / her emotion that is seen as perhaps over doing the whipping and is fined by track officials as the attitude and aptitude ,etc ,of the jock,whose emotions may be taken for a bit of anger etc that may or could be mis under stood by those watching the race as in over emphizeszed ....lol."..what have children to do with using a product called a whip created for useage on horses ( which mildly stimulate a horse because of the material the whips are made of these days ) and a slap on the behind ,to get a child's attention , lol...in the good ol days papas used whips to correct the children or the threat of papa doing same while growing up....lol...myself felt the leather strap across the hands or wooden ruler lol, on occasion at school ...ten times on each hand at times ...lol..it did focus my attention for sure back to school work...but " beating " as a word conjures all kinds of visual horrors , like even in movies...lol....children and horses are totally different as children are not whipped when racing each other but horses are....lol...and slapping is all a horse feels but gets the idea to focus a bit better as in the word control of , etc...lol...I am glad you never beat your children...I am certain they are very happy about same, as viewed from the horror stories in news papers at times ,of parents etc harming thier children etc etc...ps: in spite of the school strapping I turned out quite well, and mom chasing me with the wooden spoon, a few times ,as a kid....lol...( cause I done wrong , lol )...that sure caught my attention...lol...all about horse racing as a comparison 'there of ' ..lol.... |
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eye123
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Post by eye123 on Mar 15, 2019 7:36:07 GMT -5
Advocatus Diaboli position
It's a snowball rolling down a hill. How do you stop it ? Address all the problems everyone has with horse racing at select track. (I see they are not making this a corporate decision across the board on all the tracks they own (imagine this policy at say Portland Meadows) ).....It's a nightmare scenario for them (what's the mitigating factor....record rain fall over a short period of time).....some of the issues they address here have nothing to do with the current situation. They want to get back to racing without the negative PR, I get it. I don't give them credit for doing this now(timing sucks). But what do they do when they seem to exhaust all options ?
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Post by Unusual Pete on Mar 15, 2019 9:44:14 GMT -5
Across the internet you'd be not surprised by the number of neg comments and posts opposing this step. From my pov I'm hoping it's the start of the end of raceday meds. There will be an adjustment period, but ultimately ones skill or lack there of will will determine how enjoyable the change will be. It's not dissimilar to when California switched all major meetings to synthetic surfaces for the main track. People pissed and moaned ad nauseum, making a bunch of false statements for how they would no longer play CalRacing and predicting a fall off the cliff drop in handle. When they switched back to dirt it was a bunch of "I told you so..." Now it's a bunch of pointing fingers at the "incompetence" of the SA staff, comparing it to the expertise of the east coast equivalency. Simple internet blaming and laziness. If you couldn't win with synthetic surfaces, it nothing more than an indictment of both your laziness and skill level. For the record, the five years synthetics were in place here, the death rate dropped 37%. Evolve or die.
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phlierfreak
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Post by phlierfreak on Mar 15, 2019 10:16:28 GMT -5
one can only hope that the stopping of the meds use dosent lead to owners saying their horses that cant run without them and their value to them is more dead than alive.
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Post by frangooch on Mar 15, 2019 10:52:52 GMT -5
Go European. Run on grass. Period.
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Post by bobtailnag on Mar 15, 2019 11:47:51 GMT -5
If a horse can't run without meds they shouldn't be on a track anyway and an owner uses meds consistently because "they can't run without them" shouldn't be allowed to own them. Unfortunately there's now legal way to stop him from owning them. If a vet refuses to inject the horse he'll probably not have enough clients at the track to make a living wage.
Today we have a choice: Do you just let the status Quo continue to let horses run with minor, or worse, injuries with meds; or take a tougher stand and not allow them to run with meds which will further reduce the number eligible horses available to run each day resulting in smaller fields, possibly reducing the numbers of smaller owner operations, with fewer races each day, which, in turn, lowers purses and lower mutual - not to mention losing more players, especially ate the smaller tracks, some of which will probably have to shut down.
Every decision they make will be felt at some point down the road. Not everything has to be as negative as I painted it. Ten years ago I went to Kentucky Downs owns track (the old Dueling Down track) for a tournament. It looked like a death track - there was a 40 forty foot hill to climb on the back stretch that then went down hill on the 3rd turn. About 30 yards after the 4th turn there was a shallow gully across the stretch which I think removed the water when it rained. There were no stables - all the horses had to ship in. Today it's a brand new track - safe and profitable but they only run about 6 days a year.
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propro
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Post by propro on Mar 15, 2019 13:40:25 GMT -5
I would think the tracks in the northeast and middle Atlantic are going to be the beneficiaries of this rule change. The influx of horses and trainers from California who don’t want to deal with this rule change should start at Parx and will certainly move on to Delaware Park, Monmouth Park and Belmont Park and when they all open this spring.
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Post by spiderjohn on Mar 15, 2019 15:07:56 GMT -5
Should make for interesting meets this spring/summer in Ky and ny
Particularly keeneland and cd—derby weekend!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 16:13:20 GMT -5
...l a times John Cherwa has a good write up on the issue today ....lol..very good and clearifies the Stronack position etc...detailed...lol
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1hooper
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Post by 1hooper on Mar 15, 2019 16:32:19 GMT -5
Told today this will start on Breeders Cup weekend in November. Gives time for trainers to adapt.
Trainers are meeting today to try and figure away to bypass the future rules.
Cal Governor not a racing fan, has contemplated introducing a Bill to ban racing in the state.
Everyone knows the track should be rebuilt from bottom up.
More to come.
Hooper
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 16:43:22 GMT -5
Told today this will start on Breeders Cup weekend in November. Gives time for trainers to adapt. Trainers are meeting today to try and figure away to bypass the future rules. Cal Governor not a racing fan, has contemplated introducing a Bill to ban racing in the state. Everyone knows the track should be rebuilt from bottom up. More to come. Hooper Lol...the gov. must have a good income on a personal basis or just is a fool to undermine the lives of so, SO, many folks and thier families if the info is true...must be a democrat in the back pocket of many back benchers who have control of many parts or interests in the major industries of California ...lol..some thing is very wrong with the mind set of this governor....lol...very incompetent ...and worse to offer up such an idea...lots of dreams built the industry of horse racing and a gov. is going to eradicate so much history and incomes for so many in his little portion of time in office and that just for a tax payers free lunch etc...lol..something is certainly wrong with the guy IF the info above is right and accurate , ...lol..etc?..IF / And / Or...lol... |
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Post by bobtailnag on Mar 15, 2019 17:17:57 GMT -5
If that idiot really could shut down the tracks, somebody will find a way to move those tracks to Nevada.
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eye123
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Post by eye123 on Mar 15, 2019 17:42:32 GMT -5
Baltimore Sun:
As the drama played out at Santa Anita on Thursday, Congress moved to bring increased oversight to the sport. Rep. Andy Barr (R-Ky.) and Rep. Paul Tonko (D-N.Y.) reintroduced the Horseracing Integrity Act, which would ban the use of medication in the 24 hours before a race and introduce national standards for horseracing to replace the hodgepodge of regulations from 38 state racing commissions.
The bill was first introduced in 2017. During congressional hearings last year, some industry stalwarts railed against the ban on race day medication.
Rep. Judy Chu, whose district includes Santa Anita, co-sponsored the original bill.
Rick Baedeker, executive director the California Horse Racing Board, said he expects other tracks in California to follow Santa Anita's lead but it has been too soon to hold discussions. He said the CHRB could pass its own requirements but that couldn't take effect until the summer at the earliest. "I know the people at the tracks and would be surprised if they didn't follow suit, he said.
Regarding the riding rule, he said whips would be used for "safety corrections, not urging."
Jesse Melgar, a spokesman for Governor Gavin Newsom, said, "Governor Newsom is troubled by the recent horse deaths at Santa Anita Park and is monitoring the situation closely.”
PS:According to data compiled by The Jockey Club, only 3.6% of the 279,774 starts in the U.S. last year were made by horses without Lasix.
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Post by dblakers on Mar 15, 2019 19:16:35 GMT -5
What is everyone's opinion on this - link
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propro
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Post by propro on Mar 15, 2019 19:51:16 GMT -5
dblakers, clearly lasix is important to keeping some of the runners on the track. Back when NYRA was the only circuit that didn't use lasix, they probably had fewer bleeders than tracks that used it. My buddies and I always thought there was something else they gave their runners that kept them from bleeding, but we didn't have any proof.
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Post by bobtailnag on Mar 15, 2019 20:09:47 GMT -5
Regardless who's telling the story, I always take the story with a grain of salt when I don't get the "who, when, where, how and why". I think that story is probably true but I'm not into it 100%. When did it happen? What was the guy's name? What was the horses name? Was the horse veted before he put down the half mil? How many trainers do you know that always tells the truth about his horse?
Bottom line - it sounds like the guy got hosed. That stuff happens every day. It's no different that buying a horse at an auction. You buy a promising 2 year old for a half mil and he turns out to be a bust. If the rule says no Lasix, then the horse doesn't get Lasix. I'm a gambler. I put my money down and if I lose then I lost. It won't be a half mil but it might be (and has been numerous times) more than I could really afford at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 20:26:35 GMT -5
Lol....the medication can be given a few days before the race. But not on the day of the race nor a day before the race or even three days before a horse runs....lol...as to the whip , hahahahaha....the gov.and his sooth sayer etc has probably never ridden a horse, lol...he appears to thinks a horse that is tired during a race and begins to run erraticly that the jock is going to release one hand hold and arm to whip the horse into a straight line is a bit off the noggin...lol...the jock will pull on the riegns and count on the mouth piece as well to redirect the horse or other wise perhaps cause an accident or even fall off the horse etc....silly governor and etc....lol..let the owners handle the situation with the horse owners and trainers and the unions reaping the jocks and company etc...silly governor, a person that I think is a half wit and besides has no answers for much more serious issues in California cities and country sides....lol..etc...oh, and as long as the medication does not show up during blood tests etc it should be o k...the other factor is where to train the horses if medication is used as s a etc does not want medications that stimulate a horses performance / enhancement ...medications prescribed for horses via vets that are not race enhancing would likely be allowed for a horses ailments like a human beings... Just no ' steroids ' type enhancements....lol...wonder how many grade one, two & three horses have drug induced enhancements , and not just to stop bleeding etc...
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Post by Hooper on Mar 15, 2019 20:35:07 GMT -5
Bill Finley wrote this awhile back.
In 1975 the number for average starts per horse per year was 10.23, only slightly different from the figure for 1950, 10.91. It’s right about at that time that Lasix become part of the sport’s lexicon. Writing for the Blood-Horse, Steve Haskin reports that Lasix was legal in 14 states by early 1975. Over the next 20 years Lasix spread from state to state, province to province. When New York, the last hold out, legalized the drug for use on race-day in 1995 every racing jurisdiction in the U.S. and Canada allowed Lasix.
It can’t be a coincidence that 1975 is right about the time that horses started racing less and less often. In just five years, from 1975 to 1980, the number of average starts per horse per year went down to 9.21, a 9.9 percent decline. As more and more states added Lasix and more and more horses, horses with and without bleeding problems, began racing on the drug the number of starts per horse fell right in line. By 1995 it was at 7.73. In 2000, it was 7.10. It hit its nadir in 2008 at 6.20. From 1975 to 2008, the number of starts the average horse was making per year declined by 39.4 percent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 20:38:45 GMT -5
Gosh, this reminds me of Coke in Coca Cola and ginger ale way back...they stopped that because folks were to happy in the work place....lol...just kidding, but some thing like that...lol...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 20:46:30 GMT -5
Bill Finley wrote this awhile back. In 1975 the number for average starts per horse per year was 10.23, only slightly different from the figure for 1950, 10.91. It’s right about at that time that Lasix become part of the sport’s lexicon. Writing for the Blood-Horse, Steve Haskin reports that Lasix was legal in 14 states by early 1975. Over the next 20 years Lasix spread from state to state, province to province. When New York, the last hold out, legalized the drug for use on race-day in 1995 every racing jurisdiction in the U.S. and Canada allowed Lasix. It can’t be a coincidence that 1975 is right about the time that horses started racing less and less often. In just five years, from 1975 to 1980, the number of average starts per horse per year went down to 9.21, a 9.9 percent decline. As more and more states added Lasix and more and more horses, horses with and without bleeding problems, began racing on the drug the number of starts per horse fell right in line. By 1995 it was at 7.73. In 2000, it was 7.10. It hit its nadir in 2008 at 6.20. From 1975 to 2008, the number of starts the average horse was making per year declined by 39.4 percent. ....wasn't that also around the time when there was an out cry of to many horses ending up in the glue factory or as dog meat for a few years...  Seems I recall this being a fairly big issue and all kinds of charges and investigating done into new York & east coast drugging of horses and persons who did not run thier horses ( trainers / owners ) but set up the races for particular out comes and this also happened in England etc...lol...a few times with major individuals in the sport of kings...?? Lol...and a lot of horses were sent / sold to Cuban and other South American interests around those years...lol... |
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Seems I recall this being a fairly big issue and all kinds of charges and investigating done into new York & east coast drugging of horses and persons who did not run thier horses ( trainers / owners ) but set up the races for particular out comes and this also happened in England etc...lol...a few times with major individuals in the sport of kings...?? Lol...and a lot of horses were sent / sold to Cuban and other South American interests around those years...lol...